Legislature(2001 - 2002)
02/11/2002 01:32 PM Senate JUD
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 223-PRISONERS:PAROLE/GOOD TIME
SENATOR DONLEY, Sponsor SB 223, explained it was a revisit to an
issue. The intent of the legislation is to increase the
percentage of incarcerated individuals in Alaska that at the time
they are released would at least have their General Equivalency
Diploma (GED). The public policy reasoning behind it was that
studies had shown the number one factor in recidivism on the part
of released prisoners from correctional facilities is their
ability to read and write, their educational level, which makes
common sense. The inability to read and write greatly inhibits
their ability to find a job and meaningful employment. People
that come out of the correctional facilities with a GED are going
to have a better chance in the future to sustain themselves and
find jobs and get employment.
He explained the Sponsor Substitute version, in the packet, would
th
allow prisoners, who failed to get their GED, 1/12 of the good
rd
time sentence reduction instead of the current statutory 1/3
sentence reduction available to them. The proposed Committee
th
Substitute (CS) would allow them to get 1/6 of their good time
rdth
sentence reduction as opposed to 1/3. With the 1/6 they would
be eligible for half of their statutory good time sentence
reduction if they failed to get their GED. He said that was
about 17%, which is very close to the national standard of 15%
that had been adopted by 30 states and the federal government as
a minimum time prisoners are suppose to serve. Alaska currently
had a very generous good time law, twice the national standard.
For people who don't get their GED it would be more generous than
the national standard by 2%.
He said with the understanding that is what the proposed CS would
do, he moved the CS be adopted.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said the motion was for the committee to adopt
the document 2/5/02, 97/J. Hearing no objection CSSSSB 223 (JUD)
was adopted.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if two people go to jail, one had not
accomplished his graduation from High School or a GED and the
other one had graduated from High School, how would this effect
them.
SENATOR DONLEY answered anyone who had graduated or had a GED
rd
would still be eligible for the full 1/3 off for good time.
Those people who had not would have to get their GED, unless they
fit the exemption criteria, before they would be eligible for the
rd
full 1/3. If they did not they would only be eligible for
th
1/6.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked for whom he had exemption criteria.
SENATOR DONLEY explained the exemption criteria included people
who are mentally of physically incapable of obtaining a diploma
or its equivalency, they don't speak English as their primary
language, or due to the prisoners age or social background the
commissioner determines the prisoner cannot reasonably be
expected to meet that educational requirement.
CANDACE BROWER, Program Coordinator Department of Corrections
(DOC), said DOC also believes that education is an important
factor in rehabilitation of offenders and they take that mission
very seriously. DOC is opposed to SB 223 primarily because it
would increase costs for the state they do not think necessary.
They have in place educational programs in all of their
facilities. They provide adult basic education, which is
literacy programming as well as GED, Vocational Rehabilitation
and other educational programs. She thought they did a pretty
good job.
She explained at Lemon Creek they have what is called a GED Dorm.
When offenders are incarcerated at Lemon Creek the probation
officer meets with the offender to determine what kind of
schooling they have. If they say they have a GED or a diploma
that is verified, particularly if they are going to get into
taking away good time. If they need to get a GED or diploma they
go into what is called the GED Dorm. In that dorm there is no
television and no extra benefits and during the week they are
required to study and prepare for the GED.
People in this program who are unable, and there are a large
number of offenders who are unable to reach the sixth grade
level, don't go to that dorm because it would not be appropriate
for them to be in that particular group. She gave that as one
example of the things they do to provide education to offenders.
She explained at Spring Creek Correctional Center they have a
youth offender program. They have a separate unit for youthful
offenders and one of the requirements of that program is they
attend school. They are in school everyday. The schooling is
provided by the Kenai School District. They also have had
commencement ceremonies at Highland Mountain Correctional Center
for the women. They celebrate people's successes in education
and take it very seriously.
MS. BROWER explained this would be a more punitive angle toward
receiving education and they believe, as does most of the
educational community, incentive is a better way to go. Most
other correctional places do incentives such as provide
additional visitation, increased telephone calls, payment to
attend school and give additional time off to somebody who
achieves their diploma of GED rather that take away what other
people would ordinarily receive. DOC preferred that method and
she thought that would be less costly with the same result as SB
223.
She said the committee was aware DOC facilities suffered from
overcrowding and there were over 700 inmates in Arizona. When
DOC met in 2002 in front of the House Finance Committee they had
300 more offenders incarcerated than the previous year. She
thought some increase in numbers had to do with legislation
enacted that increased misdemeanor offenses to felony offenses
and lengthened sentences. She thought the bill would increase
sentences for people who would not be committing further crimes.
DOC simply did not have room for an increased population and they
were doing a good job.
MS. BROWER discussed another problem. On January 1, 2002 the GED
testing had been completely overhauled. Tests taken before
January 1 would not count towards a GED unless they had completed
st
their GED by December 31. Everyone as of January 1 had to
start over again. They were not sure of the effect of the new
test because it is a more rigorous program and battery. They did
not know what kind of an effect that is going to have on the
offenders and how well they are going to be able to succeed.
She was concerned about litigation. If there was a liberty
interest involved, offenders who are violated for not getting
their GED or diploma would likely go before the Parole Board for
a revocation hearing which would require the use of a Public
Defender and cause other problems.
She was concerned that many of their offenders are subject to
court ordered treatment programs such as substance abuse
treatment, sex offender treatment, and batterers programs. Some
of the programs are full time and require the complete attention
of the offender. She asked if this legislation would interfere
with their court ordered treatment. For example if someone is
court ordered to do sex offender treatment and they also have
this legislation hanging over their head would they have to
choose sex offender treatment over getting their education. Or
if they were court ordered into substance abuse treatment would
they have to choose getting sober or getting an education. She
was not sure how that would affect people who already had court
orders for other important treatment.
She appreciated Senator Donley's Committee Substitute that would
th
increase the percentage of good time to 1/6. She said when
somebody is on mandatory parole often times that is the only
supervision they have when they are released. With reduced good
time they would not be on supervision as long as they would have
otherwise. With the problem of overcrowding if there is a way
that offenders can get back into the community safely on
supervision she thought that was a preferred method.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said DOC was using all the different carrot
devises as incentives to get their GED.
MS. BROWER said they do encourage people to get their GED but
they certainly do not give them extra privileges or extra time
off.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said they were not using any of the carrot
devises or very few of them that other states are using such as
paying people to get their GEDs, giving them extra time off once
they get one, giving them additional privileges that they might
not have in the institution because they have accomplished that.
He asked what incentives were DOC using, just saying it is a good
idea to get their GED and they would provide some help.
MS. BROWER answered she was not sure what everybody does in each
institution but it is required at Spring Creek in the youthful
offender program to be in school or they can not be in that
program.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said that was only for people under a certain
age.
MS. BROWER believed it was twenty-two. At Lemon Creek it is a
requirement that they be in the GED Dorm if they are capable.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he knew it was required but it was like
prison work programs. There is no requirement to work, it is
provided for them and many choose to do it because it gives them
some activity during the day.
MS. BROWER said one of the things they do get if they get a GED
is television, whether that is a good incentive or not.
Sometimes people are encouraged to do better just because it is
better for them. They actually do want to get better.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if they had any negative incentive right
now. He asked if failure to get their GED had absolutely no
impact one way or the other on the amount of time they are going
to serve, when they are going to get out, or their conditions of
probation.
MS. BROWER said no although conditions of probation generally
have an educational requirement if the judge deems that necessary
as do conditions of parole.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked the percentage of people currently released
from our institutions that did not have a GED.
MS. BROWER said she was not sure.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if she knew whether DOC was measuring or
keeping track of educational levels, whether they were achieving
something within the institution, and how many they were
releasing that did not avail themselves of these program.
MS. BROWER said not availing themselves of the program is
probably a difficult question to answer. She had some statistics
for how many people were enrolled in GED programming in 2000,
2001 and the first six months of 2002.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said some take advantage of it and the
legislature had put money into the program to make certain there
were funds available so people could get learning opportunities
while incarcerated. He asked of those released what percentage
did not have their GED other than the excused group. He asked
what percentage of the group of people Senator Donley had
targeted with the bill were not entering into the programs and
probably would not without some additional incentive.
MS. BROWER said she was not sure they had an answer to that
question. She was not sure whether or not they track.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the new GED testing requirement related
in anyway to the testing requirements imposed by the legislature
on high school students.
MS. BROWER answered GED testing is nationwide.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said it was terrific they had an institution in
the state that was using a national test that could be verified
and validated.
He noted she had said litigation might be a problem. He said
this legislation would only apply to people being sentenced after
it takes effect. So it would be some years out before there
would be a significant fiscal impact. He noted the DOC fiscal
note was $60,000 going to $708,000. He said the $60,000 was
contractual and in 2007 there would be a very large impact. He
said that would be people who refused to go through the program
and DOC would have to keep them longer.
SENATOR DONLEY said a new fiscal note on the Committee Substitute
had not been done.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the increased cost was because DOC
sensed they would be keeping some people in prison longer and it
would be more expensive than having them on probation.
MS. BROWER said that was right.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if they had higher recidivism rates because
inmates did not have a GED. He asked if DOC wouldn't want to
keep them longer because they are the ones that are more likely
to offend if turned loose.
MS. BROWER said she supposed they would want to keep them longer
she just did not know how affective punishment was as opposed to
positive reinforcement.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said Ms. Brower was concerned if they kept them
longer there would be a shorter period of parole. He asked if
that was a cost concern or a rehabilitation concern.
MS. BROWER said it was a rehabilitation concern.
SENATOR THERRIAULT wanted to know if Senator Donley had
information on why those that have a GED have a lower recidivism
rate. Was it because they got an education or are those people
who naturally move up into the GED already less inclined to be
repeat offenders.
SENATOR DONLEY said he did not know. He explained in national
studies it is very clear that the number one correlating fact of
a person's recidivism is whether they can read and write. It
could be when they were first incarcerated they were a better
candidate for rehabilitation in the first place. It could be
that when they get out they can actually get a job because they
can read and write or it might be a combination of all those
things. It was nationally recognized that education is the
number one factor in success of not committing another crime when
released from a correctional institution.
SENATOR THERRIAULT noted Ms. Brower said the bill designated who
would check the prisoner's high school or GED records but had
indicated DOC already does that.
MS. BROWER said the Lemon Creek Correctional Center did but was
not sure if they did Department wide. If they require a prisoner
to prove they have their GED or diploma DOC will be doing that.
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked Senator Donley, since the fiscal note
was written to the original bill, did he have an idea how the
Committee Substitute would impact those numbers.
SENATOR DONLEY said the number as far as time of incarceration
would be halved so the $341,300 would be $170,000. The first
$5,500 was contractual services to administer the test of basic
education. This legislation puts the burden on the inmate to
come forward and show proof they already have their GED. They
could wipe that cost out by placing the burden on the inmate. He
said it sounded like they were already doing that at Spring Creek
and wanted to know what they were doing at the other facilities.
They would have to see how Spring Creek does it and how much it
cost them there.
He said there was an estimated $46,800 in contractual service for
additional teaching and tutoring services in addition to current
expenditures. He said that might be a legitimate cost and
probably worth it because there is nothing in the fiscal note
anticipating the savings on the back end for the decreased
recidivism.
He addressed the issues brought up by Ms. Brower. He said the
st
January 1 GED testing did not have anything to do with the bill
other than it might be a little bit tougher to get a GED in the
future in Alaska.
He said the issue of being violated for not getting a GED was
reverse thinking. The bill said they get 1/6 unless they get
rd
their GED then they get 1/3 off. The Department was in the
mentality that somehow it is the right of prisoners to have the
rd
1/3 good time. He thought that was reverse thinking. Good
time should be a reward for good behavior and this is part of the
good behavior so it is not taking it away from them it is what
they didn't get.
He said the issue of conflict with other court orders, they have
24 hours locked up in prison, so unless they are all consuming,
not being able to take sex offender or alcohol treatment and go
to school seemed inconsistent and not a very persuasive argument.
He said a lot of people do it on the Internet and don't have to
have special classes to do it.
SENATOR DONLEY addressed the idea that they would be cutting down
on time in the community for assessment and transition. He said
good time was never intended for that function. That is what
parole is intended to do and that is up to judges who can issue
mandatory parole. If the judges know that getting a GED may
affect the total amount of good time they should be sentencing
people to a certain amount of parole to give them transition time
into the community. He said it is really bad public policy to
assume good time is given to everybody so the only way we can
have a supervised period to go back in society is if they give
them good time. He thought good time should be given as a reward
for good behavior and not because they want an integration period
back into society. Mandatory parole should be part of the
judicial function and require a period of supervision.
SENATOR COWDERY thought education helped the parolees to adjust
to the outside environment. The prisons are already overcrowded.
He asked if they had any figures on what percentage return in
connection with their education level.
MS. BROWER said she did not have any numbers on that.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if DOC did not track any of that.
MS. BROWER said they are implementing a new data gathering system
that will track information much better than they have been able
to do in the past. They hoped to be able to track those things
more closely.
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said the question was based on the statistic that
nationally those who cannot read or write have a greater
propensity to repeat and return to institutions. Senator Cowdery
was asking how many of these folks are coming back and at what
levels over a given period of time. He thought they needed to
find and utilize every technique they could to make certain that
a person having once been in an institution never wanted to come
back again and maybe modified their life style and life choices
so they did not come back again.
MS. BROWER said how many come back because they don't have their
education is a complicated question. How many come back because
they have a substance abuse problem or other issues that have not
been dealt with may be more critical in Alaska because that is a
tremendous problem they try to address on a regular basis.
BRUCE RICHARDS, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner
DOC, said Senator Donley mentioned what is known around the
country as "truth in sentencing" where DOC in Alaska is required
to provide a 33% mandatory parole. Some states have a 15%. Even
though Alaska is more generous in their good time the sentences
here are longer. Last August when the Department of Justice came
out with their statistics most of the states in the country
actually had a decline in their prisoner population and Alaska
was one of five that had an increase. They had 300 more people
than at that time last year.
He pointed out that in the testimony on SB 242, Concealed
Handguns people were talking about crime reduction. If that was
the case the populations were still rising in DOC. There are
some things that are different in Alaska and he believed it was
sentencing.
MR. RICHARDS said with the Committee Substitute the incarceration
costs under FY 06, 07 and 08 would change. The $341,000 would
become $175,000 and the $648,000 would also be $175,000. There
was a holding over of people on the second year that would no
th
longer exist under the 1/6. The total number in FY 06 would be
$235,300 and hold the rest of the way out.
He wanted to respond to Senator Taylor's question about what DOC
does for incentives. Television was called an incentive but it
actually was something that everybody had. Senator Donley's No
Frills Prison Bill removed that portion so now in order for an
inmate to have television they would have to obtain a GED or
diploma.
SENATOR DONLEY said everybody in Alaska correctional facilities
had access to common area television. The provision was whether
or not they have a television in their own cell.
MR. RICHARDS discussed spitting time between court ordered
programming and getting a GED on the Internet. A piece of the No
Frills Bill specified inmates are not allowed to have a
connection to the Internet.
SENATOR DONLEY said that was a connection to the Internet in
their own cell and they still have access to computers in common
areas.
MR. RICHARDS said they do not provide Internet at all.
SENATOR DONLEY said they could access computers and have a
program like a CD Rom that had what they needed to get their GED
in a common teaching area.
MR. RICHARDS said they could do that in places where they had
computers. He thought they did that in some places.
He said because of overcrowding people are transported and moved
all the time just to keep the facilities at their caps as much as
they can. They are not able to do that everyday but everything
is interrupted all the time. He noticed the bill allowed, under
section (A) page 2 lines 12 & 13 "if the program is made
available". One of their big problems was the constant moving of
prisoners to maintain the population at different facilities.
SENATOR TAYLOR said most people who go out on their own and get
their GED do it while they are feeding their kids, doing the
laundry and going to work everyday. They get a couple of books,
take them home, work on them in the house and they cannot afford
a computer. He said for somebody to suggest to the committee
that some poor prisoner, who had a sex violation, might not be
able to do his entire sex violators treatment program and still
be able to get a GED too was kind of tough to swallow.
He commented on the current policy within DOC attempting to
comply with Judge Hunt's order on housing. He said it is a
standard higher than most any other state had. He could not
believe the level of travel and transportation and how many hours
of State Trooper time was being wasted as they bounced prisoners
from one facility to another based upon how many came in the
night before. He said it was a bazaar situation and he had yet
to see the Administration put in one single bill to build a
prison.
TAPE 02-04 SIDE A
MR. RICHARDS said Senator Taylor's comment, that there had been
no leadership by the governor and no bill had been put forward,
there actually had been Regional Correction Expansion bills
introduced by the governor in the past. Some of those turned
out, they have a new Anchorage jail opening up this year.
MR. RICHARDS pointed out that the majority of business in DOC
takes place in the Anchorage bowl area. Most of those people are
pre-trial inmates and they only have a limited number of bed
spaces for those people. In order to get people through the
judicial system and through the process they need to be in that
location. Some of those people don't stay where they are because
their court dates may be far enough down the road that they can
move them out to Palmer or down to Wildwood because there are new
people coming in.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he understood that. He appreciated the
clarification of it because he had painted with too broad a brush
on that. He understood that is the biggest part of the
population that has to keep moving.
ROSE MUNAFO, Criminal Justice Planner Department of Corrections,
said Senator Donley had mentioned they might not need to do the
test of adult basic education. She believed he felt the inmates
would be required to provide them with documentation of their
educational level but the reason they do that test is because it
is a requirement by the GED testing service. When they enroll
anyone in Adult Basic Education classes they have to do a base
line evaluation of their educational level.
SENATOR DONLEY said the fiscal note assumes there are 200 new
inmates, 8% are incapable and 35% already have their GEDs so they
are going to have 111 to test. DOC is already testing some of
those so why would they have to have the full $5500 for 111 if
they are already doing that process, for example, at Spring Creek
for all of them.
MR. RICHARDS said they are anticipating increased participation
in the GED program because of this legislation for people who are
rd
going to want to get the full 1/3 good time. Which would
result in an additional test that they probably would not be
providing.
MS. MUNAFO said it costs roughly $50 per person.
SENATOR TAYLOR said that made good sense because there may very
well be a resident body of people within the institutions that
would then want to participate.
He asked if the population in their institutions was, 3500 or
4000.
MR. RICHARDS said there were approximately 4600 people in
custody.
SENATOR DONLEY said he was all for them applying for a GED and
getting an education but this bill would not be an incentive
towards people already in just for new people. If it inspired
the existing people, that would be wonderful.
MS. MUNAFO said she did the program management for inmate
education and a few other programs so that is why she was there.
SENATOR TAYLOR thanked her and said he believed one of the
greatest aspects of rehabilitation they can offer to people who
are incarcerated is to get them some education and get them the
ability to read and write and maybe they will be able to handle
their lives a little better when they get out. He appreciated
what the people with DOC were doing.
SENATOR DONLEY told Ms. Munafo his staff would be in contact with
her to try and work out a new fiscal note based on the new
Committee Substitute.
SENATOR DONLEY made the motion to move CSSSSB 223 (JUD), the
newly adopted J version from committee with individual
recommendations.
SENATOR TAYLOR said the record should note Senator Ellis had left
but they still had a quorum.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said that is with a new fiscal note.
SENATOR TAYLOR hearing no objection moved CSSSSB 223 (JUD) from
committee with individual recommendations and with a new fiscal
note as testified to. Meeting was adjourned at 3:15 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|